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+--- Thread: Wind problem..... (/showthread.php?tid=5053)
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Wind problem..... - Paul64 - 08-07-2014
Hi,
We have recently moved to a house with a pair of metal swing gates ('solid') that are having problems when the weather turns windy.
They are fitted with FAAC 422SB motors and a Genius 592 controller, Genius transmitter / receiver / photo cells.
The gates are approx 2.75m wide and are probably around 250-300kg.
When there's no wind, no problem however, when it was blowing a little, the gates used to miss-close.
I fitted an electric centre-lock to hold them closed in the event of it being windy however, they were then pushed against the lock and preventing it from freeing at the next 'open' signal.
I fitted a stainless drop-lock, activated by the final closure movement of the second closing gate and that works well up to moderate wind conditions however, even after multiple programming sessions and adjustment of the relief valves on the motors, I can't seem to get a good compromise between no-wind and relatively strong windy conditions - either closing smoothly or slamming so hard that the system shakes the fillings out of your teeth...!!
On the 592, there are settings for closing sensitivity - are these operational with hydraulic motors? They seem to make little difference to their operation.
I need the first gate to close to keep power on against the stop whilst the second gate closes to operate the drop lock. If I bring in the deceleration on closing, the wind can overcome the motor whilst its waiting for the second gate to close....
I've programmed the system best possible 'I think' and am wondering now if I need to change the motors for something like NICE Wingo screw-driven units to ensure positive closing in all conditions?
Will the 592 control board operate this kind of motor with control of closing sensitivity etc?
Looking forward to hearing ideas!
Thanks
Paul
RE: Wind problem..... - Sav - 09-07-2014
Hello
In order for me to recommend a more suited gate kit for your requirement, i would need to know the following, Leaf size, estimated weight, use per day, then i can decide what kit would best suit your requirements, once the gates are installed the force setting can be adjusted to accommodate for the wind factor, but a precaution to take, when increasing the force on the unit you will be increasing a safety risk factor so we may need to look at possible safety edges, which are designed to stop the gate working once activated, to avoid danger to a person or vehicle.
Please contact me if you require more information,
(08-07-2014, 01:41 PM)Paul64 Wrote: Hi,
We have recently moved to a house with a pair of metal swing gates ('solid') that are having problems when the weather turns windy.
They are fitted with FAAC 422SB motors and a Genius 592 controller, Genius transmitter / receiver / photo cells.
The gates are approx 2.75m wide and are probably around 250-300kg.
When there's no wind, no problem however, when it was blowing a little, the gates used to miss-close.
I fitted an electric centre-lock to hold them closed in the event of it being windy however, they were then pushed against the lock and preventing it from freeing at the next 'open' signal.
I fitted a stainless drop-lock, activated by the final closure movement of the second closing gate and that works well up to moderate wind conditions however, even after multiple programming sessions and adjustment of the relief valves on the motors, I can't seem to get a good compromise between no-wind and relatively strong windy conditions - either closing smoothly or slamming so hard that the system shakes the fillings out of your teeth...!!
On the 592, there are settings for closing sensitivity - are these operational with hydraulic motors? They seem to make little difference to their operation.
I need the first gate to close to keep power on against the stop whilst the second gate closes to operate the drop lock. If I bring in the deceleration on closing, the wind can overcome the motor whilst its waiting for the second gate to close....
I've programmed the system best possible 'I think' and am wondering now if I need to change the motors for something like NICE Wingo screw-driven units to ensure positive closing in all conditions?
Will the 592 control board operate this kind of motor with control of closing sensitivity etc?
Looking forward to hearing ideas!
Thanks
Paul
RE: Wind problem..... - thm - 09-07-2014
For hydraulic operators, motor force should be set to the maximum on the control board. Maximum motor force in this case is adjusted by the bypass valves of each operator ("N.B.:If using hydraulic operators, force should be programmed to maximum level").
If you have problems with the operation of the electric lock you should turning DIP-switch #4 of the DS2 block of DIP-switches (the block with only 4 DIP-switches) to the ON (=UP) position to activate over-pushing and reverse stroke. You are interested in the later: "The "reversing stroke" pushes the leaves to close for a few moments before opening the gate, thus facilitating release of the electric lock."
In my opinion the combination of hydraulic operators (any kind of hydraulic operators - not specifically the ones you mention - which, btw, are quite good ones) with gates that face serious problems with wind forces is a bad combination. I wish I could say otherwise, but that is what my experience suggests. If the bypass valves are set to the maximum force in order to overcome wind, you risk damage to the operators from strong gusts of wind (either to the bypass or stop valves or to the rod which may bend a little and then wear the flange leading to oil leaking out). Electromechanical operators usually last long in such cases but one should select a very sturdy operator and install it correctly (ie keep the suggested installation distances in regards with hinges). Still, in the case of leafs with large surfaces and/or very strong winds (especially gusty ones) there is no guarantee the operators or their fixings won't fail.
A last note: one is required by law to ensure that impact forces exerted by a moving gate leaf are kept within prescribed levels (as per EN 12445 "Industrial, commercial and garage doors and gates - Safety in use of power operated doors - Test methods"). Setting operator force very high or to the maximum to overcome the effects of wind makes complying from difficult to impossible.
RE: Wind problem..... - rosierabbit - 26-07-2014
By selecting the correct size saftey edge compliance should be achievable. Or fit eg bea LZR and then there's no need to force test, deep pockets required though.
RE: Wind problem..... - thm - 28-07-2014
(26-07-2014, 03:23 PM)rosierabbit Wrote: By selecting the correct size saftey edge compliance should be achievable. Or fit eg bea LZR and then there's no need to force test, deep pockets required though.
Yes, that "impossible" of mine may have been an exaggeration...
BEA LZR is indeed a very, very cool piece of gear. Do you know if any model of it (I should think the LZR-P110) is accepted as a EN-12453 / type D safety device? Any reference? (just out of curiosity)
Links for the benefit of other readers of this thread:
BEA LZR-P110:
http://www.bea-pedestrian.be/en/products/product-range/lzr/lzr-p110/#5
BEA LZR-i100:
http://www.bea-industrial.be/en/products/product-range/lzr-i100/#6
BEA LZR-i110:
http://www.bea-industrial.be/en/products/product-range/lzr-i110/#6
The Sensorio versions:
http://www.sensorio.be/en/products/product-range/
RE: Wind problem..... - Paul64 - 05-08-2014
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the advice - I'll have another go this weekend although I think the hinges are too worn and will need replacement before making further adjustments; the whole thing needs a thorough overhaul.
We have another set of gates with NICE electro-mechanical gate closing that seems to work well but it would be a shame to throw away a grands-worth of gate motors at this point and replace them with another NICE system perhaps?
I've already set the motors to maximum and have the controller push-before opening setting in place now - it's a lot better than it used to be and hopefully, with new hinges, we'll have a better chance of things working.
Will update as things go on!
Thanks again,
Paul
RE: Wind problem..... - rosierabbit - 06-09-2014
(28-07-2014, 09:02 AM)thm Wrote:(26-07-2014, 03:23 PM)rosierabbit Wrote: By selecting the correct size saftey edge compliance should be achievable. Or fit eg bea LZR and then there's no need to force test, deep pockets required though.
Yes, that "impossible" of mine may have been an exaggeration...
BEA LZR is indeed a very, very cool piece of gear. Do you know if any model of it (I should think the LZR-P110) is accepted as a EN-12453 / type D safety device? Any reference? (just out of curiosity)
Links for the benefit of other readers of this thread:
BEA LZR-P110:
http://www.bea-pedestrian.be/en/products/product-range/lzr/lzr-p110/#5
BEA LZR-i100:
http://www.bea-industrial.be/en/products/product-range/lzr-i100/#6
BEA LZR-i110:
http://www.bea-industrial.be/en/products/product-range/lzr-i110/#6
The Sensorio versions:
http://www.sensorio.be/en/products/product-range/
Hi sorry for a late reply. Yes these are accepted and have used a few on large properties that don't want safety edges on there nice million year old 100 tonne gate ?. As for a reference for its compliance I got mine from
CAME. Brilliant as all you do is align lasers from it onto each corner of the gate and then cut out with eg a flat piece of cardboard the area you want it to detect. From then you can't go within about 300mm (depending what u set it at) without it triggering the saftey. On a 2 leaf gate you require 4 of them! But so easy to install, look brilliant and work a treat, especially as you can have a push to exit button which you can't see as it's projected on to the wall. Just put a small mark on a brick of the wall and the client just touches the brick and off they go.....hate getting excited about gates, almost as much as my wife does ☺️
Cheers
RE: Wind problem..... - FAACpro - 01-07-2016
Mag-lock.
RE: Wind problem..... - frenchconnection67 - 09-10-2016
On top of what the others had just said, the torque of the hydraulic ram can be adjusted with the by pass screws. They are located under the red plastic knob which can be removed by unscrewing the small screw. Make sure not to set it too high to prevent not only hazards but also not to stress too much the welding/structure. If the motor tend to re-open under the force of the wind, this is due to motor lock being a bit tired over time. A solution is a lock as you did but you need to set the board with the lock release function ON which makes the motor to force close for a 2 or 3 s to release any pressure of the lock before the normal cycle.
RE: Wind problem..... - SamA - 15-07-2019
(11-07-2019, 04:05 PM)Pop Alexandra Wrote:Hi,(09-10-2016, 05:46 PM)frenchconnection67 Wrote: A solution is a lock as you did but you need to set the board with the lock release function ON which makes the motor to force close for a 2 or 3 s to release any pressure of the lock before the normal cycle.I tried this with 3 seconds and it works just fine. Thanks for the tip.
_______________________________________________________
Alexandra from https://revetementagro.com/produits/garage
Glad this worked for you
Sam.